Philip Neimark

Ifa Foundation Founder

posted October 17, 2002 10:07 AM October 17, 2002 10:07 AM  

Recently a young man who had attended a Workshop informed us that he was being initiated into Palo. He asked if that would interfer with his learning and studying with us. We answered that "yes", it would conflict as the two philosophies have almost totally different world views.

This illicited an e-mail from his mentor in Palo,who took offense at what he considered our prejuidice and arrogance. I replied that I felt neither, but simpy felt the paths were too disperate to work together as ifa was dedicated to ONLY using positive energy in our work. The following discourse took place. I invite your coments and observations

Salamaleko....

Thank you for your reply. With all due respect, prejudice is just
that...Prejudice. It has been my experience, as well as the experience of
many other Paleros, that Ifa has a keen hatred for Palo, and this is
demonstrated by your Foundation, no matter how you try to gloss it over.
However, that's your choice. I will say this much about Palo... The world
is a cruel place, full of cruel people. As a Tata who serves in the
capacities that I do in the community, you learn very quickly that the
only way to combat these cruel people effectively is to be ready to be as
equally cruel as to them as they are to the victims who seek me out for
help.That's a worldview of being grounded in reality. If you can show me
one place in this world where man truly cares about each other and truly
loves one another, then I will never perform a "negative" work again as
long as I live.... Indeed. Sadly enough, there isn't one. I have seen far
more unscrupulous Babalawos than I'm sure most would like to admit, and
I've had to do the "repair work" where they were concerned.
Stand on your pedestal if you wish... I guess everyone needs to
"villian" to their "hero", and your Foundation had chosen Palo to serve
as your villian. One of these days, when you descend from that high place
you've put yourselves in, you're realize that we Paleros, for a very
large part, do more good than harm.

Kiambote,
Tata Doc


I wrote back:

Alafia!

Sounds much like rationalization to me. Everybody ALWAYS has a justification or rationalization for negative behavior.

I agree that much of the world (human) lacks good character...that, however, is not permission to do so. Indeed, it points out the necessity of setting the right example.

The Foundation has nothing against Palo. We simply teach using only positive energy. Tha was the essence of our message to Angel...not that he couldn't practice Palo, but that it would, indeed, conflict with our teaching of Ifa. He broached the question...not I

One more comment

You speak of "Ifa" as if were a person or organization. It is not. Is a philosophy which expresses a particular way of viewing the Universe. That view is overwhelmingly positive. Congo and Fon, from which you flow, had a far different world view. It is not a matter of "prejuidice" it is a matter of values



Blessings

philip neimark

PS would you mind our using your letter in the Ifa College? It might bring other interesting comments and views?

He replied:

Salamaleko,

Again, pedestals. So, being a son of Orunmila is your justification for your disdain for Palo and it's Priests and slandering thereof? My rationale is to do what I have to in order to protect my charges. Ifa, whether is be a philosophy, organization or person, still views Palo and it's Priests as lower creatures and beliefs, "beasts of the field", as it were. That's unacceptable. I don't need, nor do I seek, the justification to act from anyone but the Spirits.
You can use my e-mails, which I sure you will present in a far different context than they were intended in order to further malign Palo. Just take in mind that the Universe, with absolutely no help or encouragement from anyone or anything, tends to balance the karmic scales when people get too big for their heads.
Just something to keep in mind.

Tata Doc

I replied:



I neither slander nor distain. I cannot speak for Ifa ( indeed no one can). But I can speak for myself and the Foundation. We do not hold that view.
blessings

Philip Neimark

Posts: 38 | Registered: August 27, 2002

IyaLea

IyaLea

posted October 17, 2002 01:33 PM October 17, 2002 01:33 PM  

Thankyou Ogundadegbe for your fine reply below. How strange. It seems to me that Doc Tata believes that the most cruel and evil one will be the winner. This begs the question, How does he know who deserves the biggest dose of evil, his client or his clients' enemy? Does the highest bidder win? I'd like to remind him that "Too much evil destroys evil!"

Posts: 25 | Registered: August 28, 2002

Guest Question

Guest Question

posted October 17, 2002 12:28 PM October 17, 2002 12:28 PM  

Ela Aboru Aboye Abosise Awo Neimark

In praise of Olodumare, the Ancestors and the Irunmole on whose shoulders I stand.

A couple of months ago, I came across your website and swapped a few messages with you, if you recall. Except for a few weeks ago, I keep paying regular visits to your site. I have just returned home after a short stay in West Africa and tried to catch up with all my emails and updates in selected websites.

I could not help but read the sad exchange of messages that was presented on your website between two different spiritual paths – that of Palo Mayombe and Ifa.

I say ‘sad’ because, although I have not witnessed your conversation with the young man who are to be initiated into Palo, I did feel the words coming alive from the texts – both yours and Tata’s – and (hopefully) formed a mental picture of the situation. Also, it came to me my first-hand experience when dealing with the clergy of other African diasporal traditions who, consciously or not, attempt to denigrate – at all costs – about the Ifa’Orisa works of the spiritual community I preside as a priest.

Please bear in mind that it is NOT my intention to speak against an individual at any moment and I apologise if I do not succeed in putting my ideas across in English. It is about a situation that has happened to me, to you and keeps repeating endlessly and that will, unfortunately keep repeating unless we all learn to respect each one’s world views and spiritual traditions. Again, it is about the situation, NOT about an individual.

The discourse of the Palo priest seemed to me overtly offensive, accusing anybody – but in this situation you – for the bad image Palo has around created, most the the time by the Paleros themsleves. Actually, I have never read anything from you about Palo. About Santeria, yes. Probably because you had been initiated into Obatala in the Sanetria path before transferring to Ifa. But, it seems that whenever you refer to Santeria is in a way of analysing constrastively between these two African traditions (Ifa vs Santeria) so widespread in the USA.

What I think is that when somebody just ‘jumps against’ an Ifa or Orisa priest (excuse my poor English usage) without even knowing what Ifa is about, and overstating things which are obviously biased by their own worldview - and overtly showing bad character (at least that is what I may figure out, incorrectly I hope, from his performing negative wanga/work against people), I think that the only one who is raising the flag or prejudice and intolerance is himself, emphasising, as a Palo priest, all the negative or unfavorable reviews about his own Afro-Caribbean tradition.

Those in Ifa pretty much know that we have alternatives to fight evil without being evilish. We know that a negative situation (darkness) must be fought with positive work (light) because we all – presumably – have experienced that fighting negativity (witchcraft) with negativity (witchcraft) will ultimately generate chaos – NOT balance.

We all might have experienced the effects of witchcraft or spells directed against us but, I believe, we also have experienced the power of Ifa in dissipating these negative effects from our lives and of strengthening us throughout our lives. In addition, witchcraft is TOTALLY against the eternal principle of Iwa Pele.

I am sure that both you and all Foundation members – through your work with Ifa – have tried to maintain iwa pele in all your works. I pretty much know that most of the time this simple – yet powerfully empowering principle – is not an easy thing to accomplish. But at least we try hard and, most of the time, we succeed. Unfortunately, we cannot say the same about a handful of people out there.

I hope I may have succeeded in expressing myself as I am not articulate in English.

Ifa gbe wa O

Ire O

Ogundadegbe

Posts: 5 | Registered: September 08, 2002